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Dave - that was a superb response to the Dingo, and I've never encountered anyone else put it so well as you have here. I feel for this guy, just as I feel for anyone with the consciousness to really get what's going on here on earth - especially younger people who are bound to feel cheated of the "good life" that popular culture pushes out as propaganda around the clock. Those of us "fortunate" enough to be well on in years and conscious (as opposed to deluded) are more able to accept the reality that the global society that has been constructed to date is a falsity verging on a farce on a grand scale.

Your humanity shines out Dave - true humanity as opposed to common humanity as displayed by vast swathes of Homo sapiens.


Also, learn how to cultivate a vegetable garden, build a shed, a polytunnel and a compost bin. Keep chickens. Learn how to fix stuff, anything and everything. Buy lots of quality tools. Learn how to sew and knit. Get fit and eat healthily.
Most importantly, build relationships in your local community. Find out who does what, who makes what, who needs what and what you can do for each other.
One other thing; ferment fruit or hops or potatoes and have lots of parties to drink the stuff that comes from it.
Enjoy yourself!

Dave Cohen

@the dingo

Don't listen to Clyde.

That is certainly my idea of The Good Life, keeping chickens.


-- Dave


@The Dingo

I'm in the same boat. Me <-- guy in his early 20s worried about the future waiting for him. I have no idea what the hell I'm going to do ... ty @ Dave though, I've learned a lot from DOTE.

Dave S. Nottear


First - thank you for every word. And for the genius Carlin quote and interview.

"Conscious people are indeed obliged to not make a bad situation worse, both in their personal lives and in how they live on the Earth.

Sadly, I think a few of our leaders are conscious and feel obligated to make things worse to support their personal lives and how they live on the earth... (e.g. "american way of life is non-negotiable")


Along the lines of what Clyde (above) said:

John Prine : Spanish Pipedream (1985)

"Blow up the TV, throw away the paper..."


"Young Farmers" (young = years farming<10, not age of farmer)


Dave Cohen

@Dave Nottear

Re: Sadly, I think a few of our leaders are conscious and feel obligated to make things worse to support their personal lives and how they live on the earth

If they are making things worse, then they are not "conscious" in the sense I mean, as I wrote.

-- Dave

Mike Roberts

I have a nephew, in his early 20s, who seems to be the most concious person I know (apart from myself, of course!). He can see the destruction previous and current generations have wrought. He understands that it's difficult to do what he wants to do in the society as currently structured. He's happy with a fairly menial job but taking every opportunity he can to learn practical skills (he's even helped lay a hedge) and pick up the odd quality tool (a quality tool usually means an old tool, these days). He aspires to living in a rural community where people are a bit more aware than most about our impacts on nature. But he realises it will take quite a while for him and his partner to be able to afford to do more than the modern equivalent of hunting and gathering.

Oddly enough, he sees me as an inspiration for him, which makes me feel very guilty, because I'm definitely not doing as much as I could to simplify my lifestyle (though I do much more than most). My take is similar (I think) to Dave's; though there is nothing I can do to save the planet (whatever that means), I can stop adding to the harm our global society is doing, or at least lessen my impact markedly. I've helped get the planet to the state it's in, but I certainly don't need to continue with that.

Good luck, The Dingo.


Mike Roberts' response makes me think of the value of role modeling.

Anti-consumerism, for example, is a revolutionary concept in spite of the fact that it doesn't go far enough to be of consequence. But, like Dave said, it is a small victory. Is it possible to demonstrate by example that it actually results in greater luxury than the never-ending Red Queen's Race that most people do?

I don't know the answer. I personally have a lot of "admirers" (it's the word they use) of my simple lifestyle, but I've yet to witness anyone get all excited about emulating it. It's more of a "oh, look at you ... how awesome ... I could never do such a thing."

It also occurs to me that a very large proportion of twenty-somethings are "unemployed." Perhaps they get it and we just don't know it yet?


NoHype - I suppose it all depends on your definition of 'luxury'.
If, by that term, one finds luxury in material goods such as ipads and granite kitchen tops and forgets the stress involved in the lifestyle necessary to achieve those things then most 'Westerners' are living in luxury.
By living without those things one can have a mentally luxurious life without the associated career-related stress. As you well know.

Regarding you admirers, I suspect they'll be getting a lot more interested in your 'lifestyle' in the coming years.

Dave S. Nottear

" I've yet to witness anyone get all excited about emulating it. It's more of a "oh, look at you ... how awesome ... I could never do such a thing.""

No Hype you really do sound like one of the people profiled in "A Different Kind of Luxury: Japanese Lessons in Simple Living and Inner Abundance."

People like you did inspire me - I did say, "awesome" and I did get excited about emulating a very much simplier way of life. I guess I really did see people like you as "role models" who confirmed for me that I could live happily without being a mindless industrial robot.

So thanks.

I am by no means a role model. It is a very long climb down the ladder of our industrial culture and I see myself as barely having started.

All I can say is they better have some good cheeses down there at the bottom wrung. Any kind of cheese.

wooden swing sets

“The love that follows us sometime is our trouble, which still we thank as love.”


The best thing The Dingo can do to be "less harmful" is not to have children. That can be a good thing for your lifestyle. Unless you really want to have kids, which then it is a bad thing.


Dave - since you are taking requests :-). All this time I have been following you I don't remember reading your thoughts on GE/GMO plants and now animals (salmon). If there was even a small spark of hope for mankind, this movement ought to extinguish it altogether.

If you have posted on this subject, perhaps you can link it. Thx.

Dave S. Nottear

@ wooden swing sets:
“The love that follows us sometime is our trouble, which still we thank as love.”

That could be a whole thread on it's own. I have to write that on the wall now. Thank you.

@ mark

I think we need many more "The Dingos" in this world so maybe we should please encourage him to reproduce? I have two daughters we could cross with The Dingo and see what we come up with (joke - just a joke, sort of).

As(if?) we as a species exit this bottle neck I hope it is the thoughtful "Dingos" of our population that make it through as breeder stock for the next, bestest version of Homo sap.

(See "RED CLAW" crayfish - the meek shall inherit the earth?)

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