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09/02/2012

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John

Dave, I have followed your writing ever since the Oil Drum days and your take on our global predicament is one of my favorites, for your honesty and your commitment to facing reality. I hope you can continue your experiment for a long time, I would miss your perspective if you stopped.

Wanooski

Dave, I dunno if you heard about it or not, but critical thinking itself is now directly, and actually explicitly, under assault in the GOP's official party platform. They are actually attacking the concept of critical thought. If that does not show that we are currently spiraling downward into an insane Orwellian nightmare, then I don't know what does.

Don Bowen

You could say that politics is the art of not telling the truth while doing what ever it is you want done especially if that truth will cause pain to a lot of people. The great statesmen do what has to be done while lesser statesmen do what ever strokes their ego. We seem to be living in an age of lesser statesmen.

There are people who see a cloudy road ahead but telling us such things as we will be living with significantly less energy in the future will not get them elected. Getting themselves elected will allow them to position themselves to be among the less affected. They get elected by telling us rosy stories and kissing up to those who want to make sure they retain theirs.

Ken Barrows

Orlov's advice to avoid politics is sound unless one is willing to attack the basic assumptions of the political system (perpetual growth and expanding material abundance) and deal with the B.S. responses. I think that you make such attacks and I appreciate it. So if one thinks, for example, science is pointing to environmental destruction but wants to change that course, third party involvement seems to be the answer.

However, chances of success in the near term are zero and in the long run next to zero.

lightningclap

"The collapse itself is construed as a perverse form of Salvation for the Illuminati (the Doomers themselves)."

True, Doomers are waiting for vindication of their predictions, with gold, guns, food,a remote location. That's not gonna save them.

Ben

If Orlov says auf wiedersehen to industrial society, kisses his ass goodbye, and waits for the end of the world on his sail boat, that's fine. But don't expect anyone like me to take that schmuck seriously.

John

I think what it all boils down to is the human condition. Most people, politicians included, in the Western world don't want to make the sacrifices or the hard choices to make it better. And those hoarding gold and canned goods are no different; they just had the luck to look at some charts earlier than other people or maybe they were just closet nutjobs all along that have been made-new by a nice economic doomsday on the horizon(Unfortunately for them and not for us, the political monster under the bed will make it gradual and not immediate).

Most of us didn't see the severity of this deflation crisis until well after 2009, and for that I'd say the majority of people that wander to this website and like-minded ones are simply just looking for something to read: new information on where the economy is going. I think the best we can do is to talk about it and inform people about it. The data can't lie. A wise professor once told me that

"theory may be temporary, but a data point is forever."

If people ignore it, then fine. As you said, they are slaves to their own projections and when oil ramps up to $200 a barrel, and Bernanke's war on deflation prevents anyone from living the lives they once had, they can turn to us for the reasons why it happened, and God willing we will be wise enough to help them.

Alexander Ač

Hello.

For anybody interested there is the latest interview of Max Keiser with Orlov here (starting in the middle of the video): http://rt.com/programs/keiser-report/episode-331-max-keiser/

there, Dmitrij Orlov clearly states that current state of affairs can continue for years (see bailouts etc...), Max Kaiser disagreed with that (he expects (stock and monetary?) crash by april next year). Watch for yourself.

The latest youtube video with Jeremy Jackson I found is here (he discussed the mexican oil spill): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w0F5MjXn8s

Alex

T E Cho

Dave, I haven't spent the time to get an overview on the variety of worldview,s out there. Maybe it's because there's so much counter-common-sense 'stuff' floating around, such as the Singularity people or the lassiez-faire economics people. Unless one's retired, it's not worth the attention based on available time.

What exactly is a 'Doomer'? Is it just a too short a timeframe of crash or too deep crash relative to ones belief? Or is there a more objective definition. just as 'liberal' and 'conservative' are directions in.a continuum...spectrum, so too is a 'doomer' just a more pessimistic worldview? Or is it based on the reasoning behind the conclusion, the facts chosen or discarded. Two people may arrive at the same conclusion based on very different assumptions.

Maybe one could characterize their opinion in the form of a graph of decline vs. time. Some see just a sharp cliff ahead, others see a gradually increasing slippery slope (kinda like Ayers rock sliced vertically), others see an asymptotic-shaped bottom, others see the cliffs edge 50-100 years away, etc. Some see a more linear decline to 0.

it'd be interesting to somehow get a overview of thoughts on how things will most likely proceed and how deep the SHTF will be. Certainly, there can be no certainty, only informed guesses.


T E Cho

...Or the decline could be boiled down into -

- How soon?

- How steep?

- How deep?

Ken Barrows

Disagree with Orlov if you want, but you have to admit he made his choice and followed up.

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