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09/23/2012

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Gail

The prospects are far more severe because Grantham (and most others who make predictions about the global food supply, prominent among them Lester Brown) don't take into account a threat to yield and quality on a par with extreme weather from climate change, which is tropospheric ozone. From a UNEP report (overly optimistic and out of date of course):

"Feeding a growing world population has become one of the major issues of our century and we cannot afford to lose millions of tons of crops each year because of air pollution. Present day global relative yield losses due to tropospheric ozone exposure range between 7-12 percent for wheat, 6-16 percent for soybean, 3-4 percent for rice, and 3-5 percent for maize."

As I point out in that particular blog post, although agricultural agencies around the world acknowledge the threat to annual crops from ozone, they won't even go near a much larger topic - what is the impact on biannual and perennial vegetation that is exposed to cumulative damage, year after year? What of crops like artichokes and raspberries and asparagus and rhubarb? Most importantly, what of trees that produce fruit and nuts?

There is also a tangential effect on the feed for livestock, which is rendered less nutritious.

I'm afraid that, since it appears we are going to do exactly nothing to reduce fuel emissions that lead to ozone, the persistent background level in the troposphere will continue its accelerating climb, with devastating consequences to our food supply and a concurrent acceleration in all the collapse issues associated with it.

More excerpts to the UNEP report here:

http://witsendnj.blogspot.com/2012/06/inferno-ignites.html

John D

I have to cut Grantham some slack as he is the only investment banker unafraid to tell hard truths, not keeping up the charade like most of his ilk.

My own opinion is that economic collapse will precede environmental and resource collapse. This would prevent the financing of miraculous technological solutions. Hard to tell how it will all tie together.

Wheelerlucas

Glad to to see you got around to reading Grantham. The post that that Gail linked to is a very important one, as is her general point about tropospheric ozone .

As far as the 400 years number I believe is strictly a theoretical number that has something to with the generation of waste heat as a result of thermodynamics. It really has nothing to do with the functioning of the biosphere per say.

First read it at: Do the Math Using physics and estimation to assess energy, growth, options—by Tom Murphy.

http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2012/04/economist-meets-physicist/

Going to end again with a plug for Craig Dilworth's Vicious Circle Principle. Go to:

http://montreal.degrowth.org/downloads/papers/K074_Dilworth.pdf.

Have yet to find a better theoretical treatment of human behavior.

A hui hou ...

Dave Cohen

@Wheelerlucas--

Yes, you are right about that 400 years estimate. That does appear in Grantham's text, and is repeated by Tom Murphy.

But that theoretical ceiling, the boiling point, assuming that unattainable 2.3% growth rate in energy consumption, is simply absurd, and I do not see the usefulness in quoting it.

So I changed the text to be more in line with Grantham's point.

Regarding Dilworth, I recently purchased his magnum opus, took one look at the VCP, said to myself "well, yeah" and haven't picked it up since. I will get around to reading the parts I find useful and posting on it.

I've been meaning to get back to you about an earlier comment you made, but just hadn't done so yet. As you said, I work "bottom up" and Dilworth is a Big Theory guy.

best,

-- Dave

Wheelerlucas

I rejoice in your "well, yeah" response to Dilworth and look forward to any postings you choose to do on the good professor's magnum opus.

A bit of sharing if you do not mind. Remember those two archaeologists with their lolo {crazy} idea about how the Moai {statues} of Rapa nui {Easter Island} were "walked" into place?

Well a new NOVA episode about their theory, "The Mystery of Easter Island", will have its world premiere next month {Oct. 17th} at our international film festival. Discussion to follow screening. I expect the "discussion" to be particularly heavily stacked in favor of the film as it will part of the Pacific Islanders in Communications series. {http://www.piccom.org/}.

Doubt that comments suggesting the ancestors have not been slandered with be particularly welcome. But still plan to go.

A hui hou ...

Martin

Okay, you have one, detailed vivid view of the future - how about considering Robert Laughlin, a feted, tenured physicist at Stanford who, despite this ivory tower renown, wrote a remarkably accessible, well-written, idiosyncratic, yet seemingly ignored book called "Powering the Future" that goes deep into the science, economics, and energy demands of the present and two-centuries-hence future. He does not see human extinction as looming quite as quickly as you do, but he does foresee the race to get all that carbon into play, and is a much more worthy mind to grapple with than the usual pack.

John Theodorou

@ Martin

So the answer, according to this character,, is to destroy the last vestiges of the current wild world so as to save the mall strips, highways - the whole middle-class project in fact and for how long, exactly?

Pathetic.

Martin

No, that is not any kind of "answer." The question is where does humanity head with its social reality, and we can't assume that there will be some magical turn towards the avoidance of "fossil" fuels. You have never argued that to be the case, not should anyone be allowed to get away with arguing for some best-case scenario of degrowth or de-carbon without the evidence to prove humanity capable of such a "paradigm shift."
I take it you reject the notion of reading his book, since my short mention of it has given rise to your instant dismissal. Another perspective you might consider is Ozzie Zehner's "Green Illusions," but the title alone might have you reaching beyond "pathetic."

John Theodorou

@ Martin

Are we even talking about the same book? The author considers, like many light-green so-called "realists", sustainability as merely being the destruction of earth minus fossil fuel emissions - that's it. There is no acknowledgement of nature for its own sake.

Martin

@John
Which book, Robert ALughlin's "Powering the Future" or Ozzie Zehner's "Green Illusions"? Neither one is cavalier in any way about the destruction of nature, but that is our common history and our common future. Who would argue differently? Why even bring up such a discredited greenwash term as "sustainability"?

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