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Edward  Boyle

So a functioning middle class is necessary for the maintenance of a stable economic and social order.

I read a bit of a Roman history recently and in early Rome everyone was at a similar level, belief in the Gods, hard work, a society of hardworking peasants, merchants, etc. with common goals for the common good. That turned later into an empire with corruption, decadence and poverty. Life was cheap. The Gods were the emperors. Excess wealth due to resource drawdown is a societal illness. Moderate consumption according to current needs with longterm resource constraints of future generations in view is the view of a "religious" individual and community of an early stage of a civlization (e.g.Puritans/early Romans).

I never heard of economists in Rome. But somebody must have thought up management concepts to keep stuff working although it wasn't. Economists are B.S. artists needed when a society has become so complicated that nobody can understand how it works anymore. The economists are paid by the rich to justify their behaviour. A pseudoscience created by a society whose religion has become science (more inaccessible high priests with mumbo jumbo talk) having killed the "God of common sense" (to whom Everyman had access) long ago.


Oh Dave, you have shaken a sacred tree, and embarked on an immensely ambitious project: To explain why Mankind's defining myth is a lie. You will be tossed aside as a lunatic, a fringe dweller, by all those who dare partake of your forbidden writings. Good luck to you, my friend. I will pray you do not lose your way.

LeRoy Murray

I've read Smith, Patten, even Henry George, et al, but personally I find Malthus becoming more relevent every day, as population grows faster and farmers grow fewer, and we depend more and more on corporate farms to feed us, world wide. At some point we will outgrow food production, and everything else becomes moot.

Lee Murray


Empires rise, empires fall

The USA is a turbocharged empire, thanks to oil, so a fast rise and a fast decline.

Demonising Hemp has undone the USA as a nation and others. Bring it back and the USA will rise again. Only the people can do this for themselves.

Maya, Egypt, Anasazi,Norse, all have tombs and remains of the kings and priests who would not control their ego. Nature wins, everytime. Dont follow them off the cliff.

Let the fools destroy themselves, Nature will always provide for those who are willing to learn from it.

Stand back, watch the dominoes fall, gether your friends and family, plant your seeds, sing around the fire and BE HAPPY, Life is eternal.

For clean water, anytime, anywhere - follow this link http://www.sodis.ch/methode/index_EN


Greg Pinelli

Dave and I part company on the idea that the idea of Progress is somehow refuted by what we see taking place in the world today. Progress..real progress..is simply a template for improving life for those who choose to take advantage of the past. Roman law struggled along for 500 years during the Middle Ages and emerged as property rights in the Netherlands and then throughout much of the Western Worlds.

Dave simply confabulates Progress with Financial Growth. The end game for this kind of seedy step child of Progress is what we have..financial Ponzi schemes taken to the Corporate level..and pathetic notion's of entitlement that make any piece of poor luck into a God given economic right and obligation on someone else. The good news is that the Market rules all..much like Mother nature it eventually kicks every phony, arrogant butt way far down the block...

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